This was amazing! I am heading out to the barn soon, so I am going to try this! Thanks for sharing! I can't wait til I get home to read more of that blog,
I am sorry, Kate, I found that post difficult. Tying all day, even in a safe, secure, cool spot seems very far from an ideal way to teach patience. I am not being flippant when I say that I would like to see the trainer stand beside the tied horse quietly (sans cell phone) for the same amount of hours, relaxing for the proposed drink at noon, and then getting back to the "lesson" of patience by remaining standing tied beside the tied horse for the rest of the day. One wonders if human or horse should endure this type of brain idleness. I realize that this has been done for centuries - but so has many "animal training" methods. Sorry, not for me.
juliette - I don't do this and wouldn't all day, but I do think some opportunity for horses to learn to self-calm and just relax is OK - it can give them an opportunity to learn that they can be safe and confident just with their own company - without a person to keep them happy. I think Laura is talking about working horses - they have a job and need to be available during the working day. Pie was ranch-training, and is happy to stand tied as long as you'd want - he just cocks a hind leg and goes to sleep - it's not stressful.
Thanks Kate, for clearing this up about your approach. I agree that learning to self-calm while tied can be valuable, but the duration is where I am finding difficulty. I do think Laura is talking about working horses after they are trained. Unfortunately, she begins the training process by not always using the horse during the day. She says:
With a green horse like Ready, even if I wasn’t going to ride him that day, he got tied up every day with the others. The horses were given water at noon. They spent the day tied (they spent the night turned out). If/when I had time, or an appropriate chore, I used Ready. Otherwise he just spent the day saddled and tied.
I wouldn't have said one word if not for your first commenter. She is heading out to the barn right away to try it. I am not exactly sure what "it" is, but I do hope duration and safe, healthy conditions are taken into consideration.
Juliette - Just to be clear, I would never tie my horse up for any amount of hours to teach patience! I apologize for the confusion. I was talking about changing my mindset and giving my horse a job to do. Especially when I ride her, because she is spooky and I am a bit nervous and worried that she will spook all the time. So I am thinking if I have a job in mind, I will concentrate on that instead of concentrating on what she will spook at. I did comment on this in my post today, and as with all horse issues, I pick and choose what I think will work for me and my horse and modify it accordingly. I am by no means experienced (this is my first horse) but I do value everyone's opinion, even if I do not agree. There is so much out there to sift through!
My horse can tie. I do not know if he was trained to do this, or if he just does not mind it. I would not leave him for hours tied, but I have tied him at shows with a hay bag and water. I can picture what the author is describing and I can see the value of teaching the "work day" mentality.
I take my dear sweet time grooming and tacking up before a ride. Sometimes this includes going to my car to get my boots, trimming his hooves a bit, setting up the ring, etc. My horse stands in the cross ties and has adopted a very relaxed demeanor. Just yesterday, someone commented on how calm he was, just waiting in the aisle. A while back the farrier was working on some horses and he noticed that my horse was hanging out in the barn waiting to go out while he finished two or three horses. He asked me if I was planning on riding anytime soon. But he also said I had a very nice horse. ;)
Juliette--If you haven't tried this kind of tying, you may not know how beneficial it is to creating calm, solid-minded horses that are very reliable under saddle. It is commonly used in many "western" programs and is a very benign way of administering the sort of "adversity" that can create a solid-minded, confident horse. See my previous post on that subject over at Equestrian Ink. I have to say that having read your blog, I don't particularly agree with your methods, either, and don't think they are conducive to creating solid-minded, confident riding horses--as per the way I would define that term. But you certainly seem like a nice person who cares about her horses. So perhaps we can agree to disagree.
juliette and Laura - I think you come from very different horse worlds and traditions. Juliette - I agree with Laura, that if properly done - and there are lots of ways that aren't good ways - tying can be a very useful learning experience for horses and isn't inhumane, again if done properly. And Laura needs her horses to be able to tie, quietly, for as long as needed and regardless of what else is going on - it's a skill that isn't optional in the ranch/working horse world.
Laura - juliette is dealing with a specific horse population - OTTBs - and her way of working with her horses may not be to your taste, but it produces the results juliette wants on a schedule she's comfortable with. I'd say juliette is pretty comfortable with what she's doing and how her horses go, and that's good enough for me - they're her horses. They don't have to end up being the horses you'd produce if you were doing the training.
I think what I'm trying to say is that we all have different objectives for our horses and what we want them to be, and to be able to do. And juliette, Laura and I don't always see eye to eye on everything - I'm sure Laura would confirm that - but that doesn't keep us from wanting to have a conversation, here and over on Laura's blog. I often find that I learn a lot from thinking about things that are brought up by people from different backgrounds and with somewhat different methods - sometimes that confirms for me that I feel that what I'm doing is right for me, and sometimes it makes me question what I'm doing or try something different. I'd hope you both feel the same.
9 comments:
This was amazing! I am heading out to the barn soon, so I am going to try this! Thanks for sharing! I can't wait til I get home to read more of that blog,
I am sorry, Kate, I found that post difficult. Tying all day, even in a safe, secure, cool spot seems very far from an ideal way to teach patience. I am not being flippant when I say that I would like to see the trainer stand beside the tied horse quietly (sans cell phone) for the same amount of hours, relaxing for the proposed drink at noon, and then getting back to the "lesson" of patience by remaining standing tied beside the tied horse for the rest of the day. One wonders if human or horse should endure this type of brain idleness. I realize that this has been done for centuries - but so has many "animal training" methods. Sorry, not for me.
juliette - I don't do this and wouldn't all day, but I do think some opportunity for horses to learn to self-calm and just relax is OK - it can give them an opportunity to learn that they can be safe and confident just with their own company - without a person to keep them happy. I think Laura is talking about working horses - they have a job and need to be available during the working day. Pie was ranch-training, and is happy to stand tied as long as you'd want - he just cocks a hind leg and goes to sleep - it's not stressful.
Thanks Kate, for clearing this up about your approach. I agree that learning to self-calm while tied can be valuable, but the duration is where I am finding difficulty. I do think Laura is talking about working horses after they are trained. Unfortunately, she begins the training process by not always using the horse during the day. She says:
With a green horse like Ready, even if I wasn’t going to ride him that day, he got tied up every day with the others. The horses were given water at noon. They spent the day tied (they spent the night turned out). If/when I had time, or an appropriate chore, I used Ready. Otherwise he just spent the day saddled and tied.
I wouldn't have said one word if not for your first commenter. She is heading out to the barn right away to try it. I am not exactly sure what "it" is, but I do hope duration and safe, healthy conditions are taken into consideration.
Juliette - Just to be clear, I would never tie my horse up for any amount of hours to teach patience! I apologize for the confusion. I was talking about changing my mindset and giving my horse a job to do. Especially when I ride her, because she is spooky and I am a bit nervous and worried that she will spook all the time. So I am thinking if I have a job in mind, I will concentrate on that instead of concentrating on what she will spook at. I did comment on this in my post today, and as with all horse issues, I pick and choose what I think will work for me and my horse and modify it accordingly. I am by no means experienced (this is my first horse) but I do value everyone's opinion, even if I do not agree. There is so much out there to sift through!
Thanks Allison - wonderful. Happy relief. Yes, concentrating on a task, for our horse and us, helps keep the focus away from unwanted spooks.
My horse can tie. I do not know if he was trained to do this, or if he just does not mind it. I would not leave him for hours tied, but I have tied him at shows with a hay bag and water. I can picture what the author is describing and I can see the value of teaching the "work day" mentality.
I take my dear sweet time grooming and tacking up before a ride. Sometimes this includes going to my car to get my boots, trimming his hooves a bit, setting up the ring, etc. My horse stands in the cross ties and has adopted a very relaxed demeanor. Just yesterday, someone commented on how calm he was, just waiting in the aisle. A while back the farrier was working on some horses and he noticed that my horse was hanging out in the barn waiting to go out while he finished two or three horses. He asked me if I was planning on riding anytime soon. But he also said I had a very nice horse. ;)
Juliette--If you haven't tried this kind of tying, you may not know how beneficial it is to creating calm, solid-minded horses that are very reliable under saddle. It is commonly used in many "western" programs and is a very benign way of administering the sort of "adversity" that can create a solid-minded, confident horse. See my previous post on that subject over at Equestrian Ink. I have to say that having read your blog, I don't particularly agree with your methods, either, and don't think they are conducive to creating solid-minded, confident riding horses--as per the way I would define that term. But you certainly seem like a nice person who cares about her horses. So perhaps we can agree to disagree.
juliette and Laura - I think you come from very different horse worlds and traditions. Juliette - I agree with Laura, that if properly done - and there are lots of ways that aren't good ways - tying can be a very useful learning experience for horses and isn't inhumane, again if done properly. And Laura needs her horses to be able to tie, quietly, for as long as needed and regardless of what else is going on - it's a skill that isn't optional in the ranch/working horse world.
Laura - juliette is dealing with a specific horse population - OTTBs - and her way of working with her horses may not be to your taste, but it produces the results juliette wants on a schedule she's comfortable with. I'd say juliette is pretty comfortable with what she's doing and how her horses go, and that's good enough for me - they're her horses. They don't have to end up being the horses you'd produce if you were doing the training.
I think what I'm trying to say is that we all have different objectives for our horses and what we want them to be, and to be able to do. And juliette, Laura and I don't always see eye to eye on everything - I'm sure Laura would confirm that - but that doesn't keep us from wanting to have a conversation, here and over on Laura's blog. I often find that I learn a lot from thinking about things that are brought up by people from different backgrounds and with somewhat different methods - sometimes that confirms for me that I feel that what I'm doing is right for me, and sometimes it makes me question what I'm doing or try something different. I'd hope you both feel the same.
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