Yesterday I think we got another clue to Pie's recent somewhat grumpy behavior. The vet came to do our fall shots - the horses got their flu/rhino shots and Pie also got his rabies shot (the rest of the horses get that in the spring but Pie's on a different schedule due to when he got his rabies shot in the fall last year before I got him). So I've no personal experience with how Pie reacts to inoculations.
All my horses were perfect for the vet - I feel good about that. The vet recommended not riding that day in case they were a bit stiff or sore or under the weather due to the shots. Everybody looked good, until at about 7 p.m. our p.m. barn lady called me to say that, although Pie had eaten his dinner and had been eating hay, and had pooped and peed, he was now lying flat in his stall groaning. She thought at first that he was snoring, as he was acting pretty unresponsive - she couldn't get him to even raise his head. So I went over - the benefits of living very close by - and he was sitting up in a sternal position by that time but looking like he felt pretty awful. Here's a video our p.m. barn lady took just before I got there - she thought at first that he was just sleeping and snoring. He did get up after a few minutes, but still seemed pretty out of it - half-closed eyes and drooping head. He didn't have a temperature but we may not have gotten an accurate reading as their was "poop in the pipeline", which will lower the reading you get.
I called our vet - fortunate that our vet doesn't charge for phone calls - and our regular vet was on duty. She said that since there was no swelling at either injection site, that it was likely that it was just his immune system kicking into overdrive as a result of the shots, and that he felt a bit fluish - body aches and maybe a bit of a fever, like we may feel after a flu shot - that's certainly how he looked. She had me give him 2 grams of bute to see if that would make him feel better, and within a very short time, he had perked right back up and was vigorously eating his hay. I kept him in his stall last night to better monitor his manure and urine output, and he looked fine this morning. His temperature was slightly elevated above his morning normal - it was 100.5 and his normal is usually sub-100 in the a.m. - so I gave him another gram of bute and sent him on his way to turnout - he trotted off happily.
Now here's the interesting part. Those of you who have been following along will know that Pie's recently taken to being more crabby and even attempting to push people around - he actually bit another boarder a week or so ago. Both last evening after the bute took effect and this morning, Pie was like a horse with a personality transplant - he was back to his original friendly, cheerful demeanor. I suspect that he's got some underlying body soreness issues going on not related to the inoculations, and the bute took that away - he's looked tight in the back to me for a while, although he's not the slightest bit off. So our chiropractor/vet will be coming out early next week to work on him.
And, while we were chatting, our chiro/vet mentioned to me that there's a new research testing protocol for EPM that is more accurate, and that there's also a lower-cost treatment that seems to be effective even in horses that have had relapses . . . more on that later.
I had a friend who had a horse that suddenly went crabby recently. Bute helped as it did in your case. She had the horse adjusted and everything. Turns out it was ulcers. They were treated successfully. The vet was telling her that ulcers are common in late summer/fall and can alter a horses daily way of doing things right down to how they behave around humans.
ReplyDeleteSydney - thanks - yes, ulcers are a common cause of this kind of thing, and I should have mentioned that. Pie gets U-Gard twice a day as a supplement, and his behavior otherwise doesn't seem to be ulcers - no odd behavior around feeding and no girthiness. I suspect body soreness based on other observations, but we'll see what the chiro has to say.
ReplyDeleteI hope the chiropractor can figure it out and adjust Pie if he needs it to feel better.
ReplyDeleteWe have been holding off on fall shots so far. I'm convinced Dusty contracted her laminitis/founder from the vaccinations she received in the Spring. Because the same thing happened after shots last year. When they get their vaccinations this year we're only doing the minimum and are insisting on a different company than the one previously used. Apparently, a lot of people know about this company and have had problems with their product. My horse Erik also coliced and died after his Spring shots three years ago. Hope Pie feels better soon and is back to his sweet self.
Hope you keep us updated, Kate. Man, do we all have to be detectives with our horses, or what? It's amazing how well Bute works on their physical aches and pains...I have to be careful giving my old mare Bute because she feels so great that she'll often overdo it and consequently feel worse the next day.
ReplyDeleteGrey Horse - I'm generally pro-vaccination, as vaccines do prevent a lot of disease in horses - in fact our barn requires them, but individual horses can certainly have problems, as shown by your experience and Pie's less severe problems. There are also certain vaccinations that have more of a history of adverse reactions - there's one type of rabies vaccine which has been said to have particular problems (I'm not mentioning any names for obvious reasons - ask your vet if you want to know which manufacturer's rabies vaccine they use and which one they avoid - some vets may not care but mine does and uses the one that has not had a higher incidence of problems), and I've also had a bad experience with Potomac, which also has fairly low efficacy and which we no longer use since our environment isn't very conducive to it. When we vaccinate for rabies in the spring, we do it on a separate vet visit from our other injections.
ReplyDeleteI think the most important thing is to know your own horse and its normal demeanor and behavior. Now that we know that Pie may be sensitive, he'll get bute the day before and the day of his shots to minimize discomfort.
Pain. It's so often pain.
ReplyDeleteGlad he's feeling better. Pain will definitely change your personality.
Glad he resolved so quickly, and intersting insights, makes good sense I know I am grumpy when I hurt
ReplyDeleteAnother great post...I too, am leary about going back to vaccines but also leary about leaving him unprotected for some things too. Sigh. Sensitive babies. I hope Pie gets back to his sweet self soon!
ReplyDeleteInteresting. You are very perceptive with your horses. I do hope Pie continues to feel better after his shots and that your vet/chiro can help with anything else that may be causing his grumpiness.
ReplyDeleteAnd beautiful picture in your blog header!
Poor Pie! Hopefully he's feeling all better soon... I've never noticed my horses have any kind of reaction after vaccines, but I've definitely known horses who have.
ReplyDeleteThat makes perfect sense. It usually is pain, isn't it. And its not like Pie to be nippy. Glad his reaction was easily remedied. One of our donkeys had a reaction like that to wormer once.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you found what was bothering Pie, and now that you know you'll be able to get him sorted out and bring him back to his usual self.
ReplyDeleteOn vaccinations: I agree that they prevent a lot of disease in horses, but I have also seen a lot of serious adverse reactions. I would look at a horse's individual situation and background. I don't vaccinate my own horses, but I keep them at home and I don't compete, so they don't really mix with other horses.